Imam Malik 'alyhi rahma on bid'a-authentic?

Yaseen · 12-26-2007, 05:30 PM

Salaam

I came across a speech on TV by a salafite who quoted the following:

Imam Malik stated that he who innovates something in Islam while deeming it to be a good innovation has alleged that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was unfaithful in disseminating his message as Allah Almighty says: "This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you Al-Islam as religion. Whosoever is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Al-Ma'idah: 3)

How authentic is this statement as it can surely lead to confusion amongst the uneducated masses.

Jazakallah

Yaseen · 12-30-2007, 11:59 PM

Bump

anyone??

06-19-2009, 10:51 AM

Bismillah
Assalamu Alaykum

It wouldn't surprise me as the Imam and the early math'hab felt that congregational recitation of the Quran and group du'a was bidah.

wassalam

SuleimanalMuslim · 06-19-2009, 04:45 PM

Sayyidinah Abu Bakr as-Siddiq decided that the Qur'an should be compiled in a book form. Oh no! Bid'ah in the religion! On a more serious note, you must know that Bid'ah Hasanah clearly exists based on the above examples, as simple as that.

Sidi Isa Husayn, I am sure you are well aware of the prevelance of the recitation of the Qur'an in a group in the traditionally Maliki countries. No, the majority of the Ulama and Awwam of that country were misguided, would be the typical pseudo-Salafi's answer.

The point I am getting at is that instead of beleiving everything you hear, it must be analysed, since afterall, the purpose of the intellect was to understand the revealation.

As for group Dua, what do you mean by that? Do you mean that the Imam recite Dua aloud? If so, what do you say about this:

Quote:

Habib ibn Maslama al-Fihri (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that I heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) say: � No group of believers assemble, one of them supplicating while others saying Am�in, except that Allah answers their prayer� (Recorded by Tabrani in al-Mu�jum al-Kabir, 4/26 & Hakim in his al-Mustadrak, 3/347 and he classed it as authentic (sahih).

Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that a villager came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) on Friday and said: �O Messenger of Allah! The livestock are dying, the dependents are dying, and the people are dying! Whereupon the Messenger of Allah raised his hands in supplication and the people raised their hands in supplication with the Messenger of Allah�.. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Book of supplications).

Abu Shaddad narrates while Ubada ibn al-Samit was present and confirmed him (Allah be pleased with them both): �We were in the house of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) when he said: �Is there any stranger among you?� He meant one from the People of the Book. We said, �No, O Messenger of Allah�. He ordered for the door to be shut and said: �Raise your hands and say L� il�ha illAll�h. We raised our hands for a while. Then he said: �O Allah! Truly You have sent me with this phrase and promised me Paradise for it. Truly, You do not break the trust�. Then he said: �Be glad, for Allah has forgiven you� (Recorded by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad, 4/124, Tabrani in Mu�jam al-Kabir & classed by Haifidh al-Munziri to be sound (hasan).

Please reply in order to clarify yourself...

Aqdas · 06-20-2009, 10:14 AM

Sahih Muslim, Book 034, Number 6466:

He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect.

azizq · 06-20-2009, 10:37 AM

Here's a good discussion on bid`ah in the maliki madhab.

http://www.marifah.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3923

06-20-2009, 12:44 PM

Bismillah

The topic of bidah is a vast one, but it suffices to say that there are and have always been differences in understanding such concepts.

It is widely known that Imam Malik was strict against bidah. Sometimes it may be that he reached the right conclusion, at other times the wrong. He was a fallible man, and we don't claim infallibility for him or any of the Imams.

Yes, group recitation of the Quran is common practice in some places. This still doesn't change the fact that al-Imam himself was against this. Later ulama differed with the Imam, swollow it and learn to digest it!

And yes group dua was also considered bidah by the Imam. So was raising the hands while making dua in public considered disliked!

How later Malikis have chosen to follow other opinions is totally unrelated to the thread, whether such a quote is authentically attributed to al-Imam Malik. I only highlighted some facts to show that even if it is true, it wouldn't be surprising or against what is already well established from the Imam.

And never did i say that i agree with the Imams conclusions, merely pointed out facts!

And as for brother Aqdas post, it can not be used in favour of bidah hasanat, as the Hadith has a context, which is more about reviving a Sunnah! Yet it doesn't mean that such a thing as bidah hasanat doesn't exist, merely that people often seem to use the Hadith wrongly.

wassalam

SuleimanalMuslim · 06-20-2009, 05:02 PM

Bismillah...

Rather the fact is that Group Dua does not come under a Bid'ah of whatever sort since it is an authentic Sunnah, please read my previous post. I will post the relevant part again, for your benefit:

Habib ibn Maslama al-Fihri (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that I heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) say: � No group of believers assemble, one of them supplicating while others saying Am�in, except that Allah answers their prayer� (Recorded by Tabrani in al-Mu�jum al-Kabir, 4/26 & Hakim in his al-Mustadrak, 3/347 and he classed it as authentic (sahih).

Is this group Dua or not?

If it is, how is it classified as a Bid'ah of whatever sort?

Please answer...

azizq · 06-20-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuleimanalMuslim

Is this group Dua or not?

If it is, how is it classified as a Bid'ah of whatever sort?

Please answer...

Brother, he is not disputing the hadith. He just mentioned the position of Imam Malik(r).

SuleimanalMuslim · 06-20-2009, 06:50 PM

Sidi, he mentioned that Imam Malik was against group Dua while I presented a Hadith explicitly encouraging it... That was all

12-26-2007, 05:30 PM	#1
Yaseen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 130	Imam Malik 'alyhi rahma on bid'a-authentic? Salaam I came across a speech on TV by a salafite who quoted the following: Imam Malik stated that he who innovates something in Islam while deeming it to be a good innovation has alleged that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was unfaithful in disseminating his message as Allah Almighty says: "This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you Al-Islam as religion. Whosoever is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Al-Ma'idah: 3) How authentic is this statement as it can surely lead to confusion amongst the uneducated masses. Jazakallah

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12-30-2007, 11:59 PM	#2
Yaseen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 130	Bump anyone??

06-19-2009, 10:51 AM	#3
isahusain Posts: n/a	Bismillah Assalamu Alaykum It wouldn't surprise me as the Imam and the early math'hab felt that congregational recitation of the Quran and group du'a was bidah. wassalam

06-20-2009, 10:14 AM	#5
Aqdas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 2,262	Sahih Muslim, Book 034, Number 6466: He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect.

06-20-2009, 10:37 AM	#6
azizq Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 179	Here's a good discussion on bid`ah in the maliki madhab. http://www.marifah.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3923

06-20-2009, 12:44 PM	#7
isahusain Posts: n/a	Bismillah The topic of bidah is a vast one, but it suffices to say that there are and have always been differences in understanding such concepts. It is widely known that Imam Malik was strict against bidah. Sometimes it may be that he reached the right conclusion, at other times the wrong. He was a fallible man, and we don't claim infallibility for him or any of the Imams. Yes, group recitation of the Quran is common practice in some places. This still doesn't change the fact that al-Imam himself was against this. Later ulama differed with the Imam, swollow it and learn to digest it! And yes group dua was also considered bidah by the Imam. So was raising the hands while making dua in public considered disliked! How later Malikis have chosen to follow other opinions is totally unrelated to the thread, whether such a quote is authentically attributed to al-Imam Malik. I only highlighted some facts to show that even if it is true, it wouldn't be surprising or against what is already well established from the Imam. And never did i say that i agree with the Imams conclusions, merely pointed out facts! And as for brother Aqdas post, it can not be used in favour of bidah hasanat, as the Hadith has a context, which is more about reviving a Sunnah! Yet it doesn't mean that such a thing as bidah hasanat doesn't exist, merely that people often seem to use the Hadith wrongly. wassalam

06-20-2009, 05:02 PM	#8
SuleimanalMuslim Resident Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 605	Bismillah... Rather the fact is that Group Dua does not come under a Bid'ah of whatever sort since it is an authentic Sunnah, please read my previous post. I will post the relevant part again, for your benefit: Habib ibn Maslama al-Fihri (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that I heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) say: � No group of believers assemble, one of them supplicating while others saying Am�in, except that Allah answers their prayer� (Recorded by Tabrani in al-Mu�jum al-Kabir, 4/26 & Hakim in his al-Mustadrak, 3/347 and he classed it as authentic (sahih). Is this group Dua or not? If it is, how is it classified as a Bid'ah of whatever sort? Please answer...

06-20-2009, 06:50 PM	#10
SuleimanalMuslim Resident Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 605	Sidi, he mentioned that Imam Malik was against group Dua while I presented a Hadith explicitly encouraging it... That was all