old school or new school?

[AbdalQadir]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...194449726.html

interesting case in point for disciplining children and raising responsible adults.

Islamically speaking, if parents adopted "extreme" measures such as these and similar to these, would it raise smarter and more responsible Muslim citizens who won't fall for hucksters and morality criminals, and be stronger in the face of dumb emotional blackmail like "what ever happened to looking for excuses?" - this is of course at an emotional or moral intelligence level

do such extreme measures force people into reflection and contemplation?

what about at a civil laws level? will it help raise adults who will be sensible law abiding citizens?

what's the fiqh of it all, punishing kids, raising responsible and sensible adults, taking measures to ensure people contemplate and remember and realise their offences etc?

quite interesting.

ps. i'm not trying to be an intellectual and looking to comment on hudud offenses and Islamically well defined punishments. not trying to be an orientalist here. it is good though that we can take those points and their usuls and underlying methodology for qiyas purposes here.

[naqshbandijamaati]

Salams,
I am not so interested in what the fiqh books say but I think that although
disciplining kids is necessary I dont agree with all the old school tactics. This man went overboard in my opinion.

I think a stern word or something like sending them to bed without supper or not buying them the game they wanted is much better than any physical punishment too.

Just my two cents. I used to be a supporter of old school but I have changed my views...

Slaughter, electrical tape around your daughter
Old school new school need to learn though
I burn baby burn like Disco Inferno
Burn slow like blunts with ya-yo
Peel more skins than Idaho potato
- Christopher Wallace aka Notorious BIG

[abu Hasan]

actually, these kind of punishments are discouraged in islam. it will make the boy shameless. imam ghazali in his kimiya e sa'adat says that openly condemning an act and embarrassing the child will make him shameless. you should let him know that you are displeased and this is sin; you should let him feel ashamed, without destroying his honour or self-respect.

the old school is that of love. children love their parents so much that they would not dare do anything that would hurt their parents. and how to make them love you? love them so much that they will feel indebted to you.

many younger parents think that merely buying things for children is good parenting. but it is the bond of love that is invaluable; how many hours do they spend time with kids - building that bond? if parents themselves do not know what are good morals - the right from the wrong - how can they expect their kids to learn that? in the past, whenever kids did something wrong, their biggest fear was, 'what if mom/dad found out?'

--
from kimiya-e-sa'adat:

when the child does something good and behaves well, you should praise him and give him something (a prize) which will make him happy. praise him in front of others (to encourage him).

if he makes mistakes, ignore it a few times (and do not censure him) so that he does not become audacious and stubborn. particularly, when he tries to hide his mistake - because scolding him repeatedly will make him shameless and unrestrained; then he will do such things brazenly.

if he deliberately does something, reprimand him in private and tell him that if he does such things again he will lose respect and honour (in society); and will be embarrassed.

----
parents watch all kinds of programmes on television, in front of their kids; and expect their children to be demure. (i speak only of muslim families). people don't behave well in front of children - they get angry, they get wild, they shout at others (even at their own kids,) they curse, they refuse to be pacified; yet, they expect their children to behave well. parents break the law when others are not looking but expect their kids to be law abiding.

o ye who believe! why do you say such things which you do not do yourselves?

we have to be good muslims ourselves and obey the commandments of Allah sub'Hanahu wa ta'ala and His beloved sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam; in sha Allah, those beneath us will be respectful and obedient to us.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

[chisti-raza]

Lovely advice sidi aH. I believe that this is discussed in detail in Bahar. Do you happen to know the volume number?