what are clear cut reasons for takfir of dr.tahir

[HarunI]

Originally Posted by abu Hasan

see mufti ahmed yar khan sahib said that they were kafirs. tahir says they are not kafirs.

Originally Posted by abu Hasan

Show us an example of tahir's remorse and we will immediately withhold from criticism.

Check out this speech which was given on 17th March,2012.In this speech its clearly mentioned that Christians and Jews are Kaafirs unequivocally.

See 28:00 onwards which leaves no doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlfIz5KW3II

But still,if you have made up your mind to cling to your prejudice.
Then I can't help you.

Originally Posted by abu Hasan

Some well known ulama have given fatwa of kufr. but you ignore them because of your generalisation. where it suits you, you are a blind follower of muftis; and when it suits you, you cite imam a'azam as if you are the chief mufti yourself.

http://www.sunnitableegijamaat.com/ilyaskufr.htm
When I told you that the same Muftis who have given Fatwa on TuQ and made the website TuP.com live and are leading the Kufr campaign in India have also issued a Fatwa of Kufr on Maulana Ilyas Qadri.you completely ignored that statement by saying
“Maulana Ilyas has always been considerd Sunni”
and changing the topic.
What is this?
Who is picking and choosing fatwas?
You or me?

Originally Posted by abu Hasan

the truth is, that you have an agenda and using this helpless-muqallid mask to try to convince that tahir is some sort of great aalim, whereas he is nothing more than a well-funded fraud.

So are you indirectly implying that Ulema who are supporting him have also been bought?
Come on! Speak up your mind!

Originally Posted by abu Hasan

look at how restrained we are about the shuyukh/scholars who are supposedly 'with' tahir. it is because of valid excuse - we assume that they probably are not aware.

Yes.That excuse can be used for Ulema who venture out in Jungles or Caves for Riyaza'h for most time of the year.

Originally Posted by a

only those who can read arabic can appreciate this fact. read the same statement in arabic and notice how it is difficult to pick a fault with it; but in english, it is totally different - in fact apologetic.

This is what I have been saying.

Believers is the word that comes closest in English language for people who believe in Divine books even though they are Mushriks.This can be called linguistic defieciency of English and it would be great mistake to issue fatwas of Kufr on people using it.

[AbdalQadir]

this has been your modus operandi on this thread: you go all gung ho and start off discussing academic and fiqh and usool points,

and then when you're given counter arguments and cross examined, you go back into hiding behind personalities and he said she said leaving aside all fiqh and usool that you started with

(in general this has been your style all over the forum on this tahir fiasco - you play duck n dive)

but this is a start

This can be called linguistic defieciency of English

your deficiency in spelling out tahir's linguistic deficiency!

most of us always knew tahir's english was deficient, but sadly that's not his only deficiency.

-----

In this speech its clearly mentioned that Christians and Jews are Kaafirs unequivocally.

See 28:00 onwards which leaves no doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlfIz5KW3II

i can't watch the video right now, but assuming he did unequivocally say that christians and jews are kafirs on 17th march 2012, as you say, it doesn't acquit him of his previous saying in pakistan unless he actually consciously denounces those sayings and repents and re-enters islam, (the deobandis too say that later on thanvi edited the passage from his book on a later date)

AND it also doesn't acquit him from all the other compound blasphemies uttered at the wembley event (like honoring krishna saying "and we shall remember the love of krishna"... but wait ... he said that in a state of wajd according to you, right? in that same state of wajd he desired for the flourishing of all kufr, right? saying "may every religion keep its fragrance")

AND the blasphemy of saying that it is sunnah of the Prophet, 3alaihis salam, to invite christians to pray according to their traditions (wal 3eyadhu biLlah)

sure, i understand you can't and won't take my word for it

but might i suggest you read up the apostasy rulings in books of fiqh of any madhhab

[abu Hasan]

and changing the topic.
What is this?
Who is picking and choosing fatwas?
You or me?

The Topic of this post is "clear cut reasons for takfir of dr.tahir" asked by a member. If you don't have contacts in Minhaj and you can't contribute anything valuable we would appreciate your silence. You may be a member of this site, but it doesn't mean you should be jumping into every thread and giving your expert comments.

[abu Hasan]

So are you indirectly implying that Ulema who are supporting him have also been bought? Come on! Speak up your mind!

no i am not implying that.

unlike you, i am not evasive in my answers. read this post, if you are able to read. we know that you are a champion of copy-paste (pasting the same trash in half a dozen threads - and sometimes multiple posts in the same thread.

Yes.That excuse can be used for Ulema who venture out in Jungles or Caves for Riyaza'h for most time of the year.

are you implying that every mawlana out there is internet-savvy and spend hours browsing the internet? or are you saying that all these ulama are so enamoured by tahir that they follow every bit of what he has said and like five times prayer, they consider listening to tahir's speeches a farD?

come on, speak up your mind!

This is what I have been saying. Believers is the word that comes closest in English language for people who believe in Divine books even though they are Mushriks.This can be called linguistic defieciency of English and it would be great mistake to issue fatwas of Kufr on people using it.

you are pointedly ignoring the point i made in that post that it is not about the 'believers' comment; it is the comment that tahir made that they are NOT NON-BELIEVERS.

-----
so here is the final warning. until you answer this question below, every post of yours will be edited to blank. i encourage brothers to not engage with him until he answers this question.

the question is:

a person says: "christians and jews are not counted as disbelievers" on more than one occasion. do you, harunI consider this statement kufr or not?

[HarunI]

MOD: answer the question first.

[kattarsunni]

Tahir has caused confusion.

His followers are calling Christians and Jews 'believers'. Now he is trying to clarify his confusion which is causing more confusion.

What is the claim of tajdid about?

[abu Hasan]

harunI posted this:

If present day Muftis are not internet savvy,does it mean that internet savvy people like me should be promoted as Mufti overnight..

I have clarified that Jews and Christians are Kaafir and Dr.TuQ has
also clarified in his Mumbai speech on 17th March,2012.

28:00 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlfIz5KW3II

But as said earlier English language has the term believers which comes closest to describing Christians.So they are believers in linguistic sense but Kaafir in essence.

And we already discussed this.

As you already seem to be irritated by the Ctrl-V function of my keyboard,so, I don't want to copy paste the remaining stuff here..

So in conclusion this is a very tricky question for me to answer due to the nature of English language.

But, I have clarified my stand and Dr.TuQ has also clarified his stand on this important issue.

as is obvious, he keeps repeating the same thing and avoids the issue that tahir already said kufr and did not repent from it.

---
notice how big their egos are and how obsessed they are about their own pitiful selves. harun HAD to add I in capital next to his name.

---
when it suits him it is tricky for him to answer; when it is conducive to him, he will demand an exact answer without any concession. readers will no doubt notice, that such people come with nice words and flowery language but a few personal attacks on them and their true selves are bared.

sincere people are never perturbed by personal attacks.

such people - sidekicks of frauds like tahir should not be entertained. we wanted to ban him long ago, as we don't want to waste our time spitting in the sewer, but we just let him demonstrate how they stubbornly refuse direct and simple answers for explicit questions - but are ready to give elaborate justifications.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

[abu Hasan]

It is the principle.

have you heard of the straw man argument?

---
tahir says that yahud and nasara are not kafirs. but you are - like the banned fellow - trying to show 'believers'.

as for the statements you've quoted below, i will see this later. in sha Allah.

[IslamIsTheTruth]

Originally Posted by HarunI

The word "believer" can be used in many shades of meanings. Like all 73 sects of Muslims are believers in Quran, Ahadith and they also recite Kalima Tayyiba. But, we all know as per Sahih Ahadith, out of them 72 are not 'real believers'. Only one Group is real believers; therefore, they are real Muslims. The others are not real Muslims. Meaning, they are Kafirs, therefore, they will be thrown in Hell Fire permanently. There is no salvation for them.

Correct me if im wrong please. But from my understanding the 72 astray sects are still within the folds of islam and salvation for them is possible i.e their beliefs havent reached the state of kufr but they are among the ahlul biddah rather than the murtads. They will go to hell because of there aqeedah where as those with the correct beliefs may enter the fire for the sins they commited. If i am wrong then forgive me.

[Aqib Qadri]

Originally Posted by khadim.awliya

I said Dr Taher made mistakes. But, I would not doubt the intentions of Taher al Qadri rather, I would say lack of knowledge or articulation. lack of use of proper words.
Why cannot you understand that shariah education is sub-standard in the subcontinent. People have hard time making a living and when there is no hope they become molvis and maulanas. why so much expectation from such people. Dr Taher is no different than any other normal molvi from subcontinent. Everyone knows here what I am speaking about.

I am ready for anything you ask.

Put the clear cut kufric statement of Dr Taher ul Qadri in the light of shariah. who can deny it ?

TRY TO FIRST UNDERSTAND THIS QUOTE: (and then, if you do not have an iota of faith, try to defend it.)


At the Wembley conference on 24 Sept 2011 - Dr Tahir personally went over to the Hindu pundit requesting him (to pray to):

QUOTE: “Any God you want, any words you want to say, any name according to your religion”. UNQUOTE.

Does a MUSLIM believe in ANY GOD, other than ALLAH?

Read the full post here: http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=10164